Interview with Sir Bill Thomas

Sir Bill Thomas was born in 1959, in Colne, Lancashire. His father was a schoolteacher and his mother a publican up until she joined the WRAF. He says: “My mother was an amazing woman.  She was born in 1921 in Swansea, Wales.  In 1942 with all the men going away to war, my mother ended up with her name over the door of two pubs in Swansea; she was only 21 years old. She ran those for two years and then joined the Women’s RAF where she met my father at Stormy Down, an RAF base. He served in the RAF from 1939 throughout the war. He was stationed in South Africa for a good while and met my mother when he returned.  After leaving the RAF in 1945, my parents settled in Colne in Lancashire where my father got a job teaching.”

Bill was the first among his siblings to go to university from school; the others went to teacher training college, and then into education.

 He says that while his parents supported their education, they did not believe in pushing children too much, adding: “They thought it was much more important to be happy, have a good childhood, and grow up in a caring environment. I don’t recall being under any great pressure to do well at school, or to go to college, it just seemed a very natural thing to do.”

 Bill attended the local Sacred Heart Roman Catholic infant and junior school, where his father was deputy headmaster, and his nephew is currently the headmaster. Bill says: “It was a lovely school; a very simple mill town school.  The infant school particularly was taught mainly by nuns.  The ones that taught me were very kind, so, it was a nice place to be educated.”

After junior school, having passed his Eleven Plus, Bill attended St Theodore’s RC secondary school in Burnley which meant a seven mile twice daily bus commute from Colne. He says: “We had very, some very happy years there, it was a really great all-boys school.  The official religion was Catholicism; the unofficial and much more important religion was football.”

At sixth form, Bill concentrated on maths and physics. His choice of subjects was influenced by his father’s experience and career in the RAF. He says: “I was heavily influenced by listening to him and what had happened to him in the Second World War. I knew from a very early age that what I wanted to do was maths and then go into the defence industry. I found maths quite good fun and straightforward.”

After gaining A levels in double maths, physics and general studies, Bill went to Leeds University. He adds: “When it came time to pick the universities, it was glaringly obvious that I was going to do maths. In 1978 I was meant to go off to Imperial College, but I couldn’t get any accommodation; there was a real mess-up at London University on accommodation. I ended up going to Leeds instead, and my life was completely different as a result.” It was at Leeds university that Bill met Julie, his future wife.

In 1981, having completed his degree, Bill was offered a job by Marconi Space and Defence in Frimley, Surrey.  He says: “It was a very interesting place to be.  Marconi, was part of GEC, delivering very large cost-plus defence contracts.

“I had a lot to learn. I had done straight maths at university, and there’s a big gap between finishing maths at university and finding an application for that in engineering that really gets traction.”

“I ended up doing lots of mathematical modelling, which you could do straight away, but you did need to get up a curve in terms of how radar systems worked. After mathematical modelling, I got into control theory and digital signal processing, which I really enjoyed; I found it a very stimulating area.  They put a little bit of money in to me in terms of some training and I ended up doing lots of work on non-Fourier techniques for spectrum analysis to get super-resolution. It was weird stuff.  It was called maximum entropy method spectral analysis. … I worked on that for pattern recognition on tracker radar systems.  I worked on Blindfire, DN 181, that went with the Rapier system. I found the work at Marconi very stimulating.  I didn’t find it a very dynamic place; it was very much just getting on with stuff and performance didn’t seem to make a lot of difference.”

In 1984, following a course he took in Birmingham taught by Jim Abbott, Bill decided to move to Systems Designers Limited in Fleet. He says: “I jumped ship from GEC, which was probably one of the biggest engineering tech firms, certainly in the country, to one of the tiniest.  I was one of the first couple of hundred people into the company.”

 Bill’s first project was a six-month spell working on the Battlefield Artillery Target Engagement System (BATES), which was part of a contract for Marconi. He then moved over to a Ferranti contract working on digital signal processing for the vertical launch Sea Wolf.

He says: “I had always wanted to get into the same group that Jim Abbott and Tony Beard were in. They had a vacancy, and I joined Jim’s consultancy team where I worked on modelling combat net radio for RSRE.”

As he started at SDL, Bill also took time to study for a part-time master’s degree in digital systems at Brunel University. He adds: “It took all the maths that we had done in classical signal processing and transformation work, and applied it to the design of digital systems. There was a bit of artificial intelligence, a lot of pattern recognition, signal and image processing, theoretical computer architecture work, parallel processing.  It was a really great course, that SDL sponsored me on. I did two years on that, and then did a dissertation with them.”

His role at SDL saw him continue to work on numerous projects, he adds: “I loved working on projects for the research establishments, RSRE, ARE etc … Looking back I can’t believe we actually got paid to do it, we enjoyed it so much.”

In 1988 Systems Designers bought Scicon and became SD-Scicon, a merger which Bill says was really good because Scicon had a more disciplined market facing approach than SD. He explains: “I was in the bit of SD that did theoretical studies rather than systems integration, We had certain relationships with the establishments and we just worked with just those relationships.  Scicon however were more formal in business development, segmenting the market, identifying who was spending, and then, over a period of time getting to know those people, understand their programmes, their ambitions, and slowly but surely getting onto tendering lists. There was proper business development.  There were business managers for certain areas, whereas from a business point of view we (SD) were a bit more informal.”

In 1991 EDS acquired SD-Scicon.  Of the merger with EDS, Bill says: “If you look at the growth that EDS got out of the SD-Scicon acquisition, then it was spectacular.  However, I have to say that EDS didn’t realise what they were buying. My recollection is that EDS thought they were buying a PWC like consultancy; they thought they were buying people who knew about business process re-engineering.  They didn’t realise they were buying Geoff Barton who knew about European fighter radar systems, David Wrigley and his DAT, Pete Smith and his directed energy weapons.

“If you’re thinking about value chain analysis, then EDS were secondary value chain.  back office, data centres and networks etc, and SD-Scicon were primary value chain. Even in the manufacturing space, SD-Scicon did ERP systems, logistics systems, product data management for engineering, etc, and that was a real synergy.”

The purchase gave EDS a “footprint in the UK” as Bill describes it. He continues: “It was several thousand talented and motivated people who knew a lot about industries.  … EDS got people who understood what was important about technology in the boardrooms, how to use technology to gain advantage. Data centres were critical utility facilities but did not gain board attention other than for cost and quality. Manufacturing execution systems ERP systems and command control systems are important in boardrooms in defence, or energy or manufacturing. Putting together a value chain to create competitive advantage is highly relevant to different industries.  Having said that we never quite closed the gap on being the guys who could do IT strategy, information system strategy, and then take it through system integration and into operations which is why EDS ended up buying AT Kearney.”

Bill goes on to explain that once again, EDS wanted a consultancy that would focus on process re-engineering linking to business strategy. However, AT Kearney were more operations and strategic sourcing consultants.

Having realised that he not only loved working on mathematical problems but also business development, Bill decided that he really wanted to run a business. His plan was to return to university and do a business course. Having decided to quit EDS to study, he was persuaded to remain an employee and EDS would pay his fees on the proviso that he returned for two years after his study.

Bill continues: “So, I went and did my MBA, I really enjoyed it, and then returned to run aerospace for David Courtley. I was in charge of a £12 million profit and loss and a few hundred staff, who were brilliant guys. …  We were doing studies into future missile systems, mission planning systems for Harrier, attack helicopter, and Tornado, etc.  We were doing some infrastructure stuff on the aerospace side. Lots of fascinating businesses really.”

Bill spent eighteen months in that role before he was moved to run Manufacturing for EDS in the UK. He adds: “I ran that for another year, eighteen months, and then I got involved with Rolls-Royce.”

The five-year project involved bench-marking Rolls-Royce’ core processes, Bill explains:” We benchmarked against world class for integrated product development, lean component manufacture, engine assembly and test, supply chain management, direct and indirect procurement and engine overhaul and repair. We then monetised that value and cost to close the gaps to world class. That was the purpose of the Better Performance Faster programme to close those gaps.”

The project was one of the largest of its kind, involving teams from AT Kearney, Rolls-Royce and EDS, Bill adds: “AT Kearney only got paid when the benefits came through, so we had a lot of financial engineering to do around that.  We primed that programme for Rolls-Royce with a very large cash injection. We used the IT outsourcing revenues from Rolls-Royce to finance the overall programme with the banks, and then we spent five years executing the process re-engineering, implementing the new IT and delivering the change programme with Rolls-Royce. As, the benefits started coming through, we shared the benefits. We paid down the bank debt that had provided the cash injection, we recovered the AT Kearney fees, covered Rolls-Royce’s internal costs and then shared the residual net benefit stream between Rolls-Royce and EDS.  It was one of the biggest consulting projects I’ve ever seen.  It involved 200, 250 AT Kearney people, the same number for Rolls-Royce, and then a similar number of IT people. It required a very large upfront investment, and then, only when the benefits came through the P&L could we get paid.  KPMG were hired to keep everybody honest.  I don’t know if the programme was one of the first of its kind, but it was unusual in that a few things lined up at once – we had bought AT Kearney and Rolls-Royce wanted an enterprise transformation programme ”

After completing the project, Bill went to EDS headquarters in Dallas. He explains: “I got a phone call from Jeff Heller about going across and joining this project. I joined a bunch of people in Dallas, and effectively what we had done for Rolls-Royce, we did for EDS. We designed a change programme for EDS to transform its footprint globally and change its operating model. I spent probably about six to nine months in Dallas working on that.”

Bill returned to Europe as EMEA COO f where he spent a year implementing that change programme across Europe and delivering the productivity improvement.

With EDS UK running as two separate businesses, one focused on the public sector and the other on the commercial sector, a decision was made to put the two divisions back together. Bill returned to the UK in 2001 to become the CEO of the UK, a role he held until 2003 when he then became EDS chair of EMEA.

Bill says of the transition from hands on programme role at Rolls-Royce to CEO: “I use a mission deployment framework: mission objectives, strategy, and tactics. It’s the same framework if you’re running a small business or a big one. You just decompose it, if you secure these objectives, then you’ll achieve a mission, and then for each of those objectives you need a strategy, and then for each of those strategies, that decomposes into a set of tactics, and they all become executable plans with deliverables,  timescales and accountabilities. Then the focus is on the leading indicators for delivering those projects and if that works, then it should roll up to achieve the mission.  It’s all about getting the right people involved, the right people around you; that’s far more important than any sort of execution strategy.”

In 1998, EDS experienced a challenging time with General Motors and was finding it hard to hold the growth rates.  A decision was made to approach Hewlett Packard. Bill explains: “We knew that HP were the biggest technology firm on the planet, but they didn’t have a very large or successful service business. So, Ron Rittenmeyer, EDS CEO and chairman, approached Mark Hurd and said, ‘Why don’t we put our two service businesses together.  We’ll be your service partner.’ We had sold very little HP kit into EDS, and we’d certainly not sold into HP’s clients.  So there was a natural synergy.  Mark Hurd said, ‘That’s a really good idea, but I think it should be the other way round, we should buy EDS.’  A transaction was put in place, and it closed about two weeks before Lehman Brothers went wrong. The timing of it was quite good in that respect.  There were about ten of us on the exec committee of EDS, and five of us stayed on to integrate the business and the rest left.

Bill adds: “HP had about $4billion of strategic services in EMEA, we had about $8billion  and my job was to put them together.. It was a very difficult time, with a lot of synergies to deliver on the back of the integration against the background of the economic crisis. A lot of the applications work switched off.  Around 11,000 people had to leave the business during that first eighteen months. It was a very challenging time.”

After two years and completing the EDS/HP integration, Bill decided to leave and take on a variety of different positions in more of a portfolio career.

He came to the decision after being offered a full-time role and discussing it with his wife , he explains: “I was offered a full-time role, and I talked about it to Julie, and she said, ‘if you want to do it, that’s fine, but it seems like a curious thing to do, if you don’t have to.’ When I really thought about it I realised that there’s a huge difference between wanting to have done a job, and wanting to do it.  All those different jobs I had done previously, I really wanted to do them. I never went looking for them, they just came along. With the new full-time role, I knew it made sense for me and that would be a good thing to have done, but I didn’t really want to do it. Those two things aren’t the same, so I took on a variety of roles instead.

“I went back to two of my old universities; I went on the board at the business school at Leeds, and I chaired the board at the business school at Cranfield. I loved that, I must have done six or seven years at Cranfield, and about four years at Leeds.

“I also got involved with politics when Ed Miliband was running the Labour Party. I did a lot of work on defence procurement, business policy to help grow small businesses, and on skills. I stopped working there when Jeremy Corbyn took charge, that wasn’t my kind of politics.”

Having anchored his career around defence, Bill also took up some charity work associated with defence. For 6 years he chaired the board of the Royal Navy and Royal Marines Charity helping to integrate that sector.

He also took on several Board positions some public, some PE backed including VFS, Xchanging, Balfour Beatty, GFI; a software product business, the Co-op Bank, Clarksons; a shipbroking company, Spirent; a large networking company, Mandiant; a cybersecurity firm, Node4 an IT service  firm and Jungle Creations an online publishing and digital marketing firm.

On the subject of cybersecurity, Bill believes that it is not as well understood in boardrooms as it needs to be. With cyber security audits mostly done via the CIO or CSO, he highlights that the board very often does not have a direct relationship with the auditors, and there is a need for greater dialogue between the board and the CIO/CISO. He says: “The CISO should come in, and with the right auditor establish a baseline of current exposure and then offer different levels of protection for different levels of investment depending on the firm’s risk appetite.

He also highlights the need for continual assessment of risk, he adds: “Many organisations test their cyber capability twice a year, and then get on with life as normal. That’s like having a fire engine drive past your office to see if it’s on fire twice a year, and if it’s not on fire, then you forget about it. What’s really needed is the idea of continually assessing your exposure against an evolving threat, We need cyber  smoke alarms not 6 monthly drive by inspections.”

Asked about whether the UK is a good place to start a business in IT, Bill says: “My impression is that our universities, pound for pound, are probably still the best in the world, in terms of the innovation that comes out of them, and the number of Nobel Laureates etc. I think we can do much more to harvest cooperation between industry and universities.

“We have a serious skills challenge; it’s far too difficult to fill really high value jobs. As we sit here today, we worry about growth in GDP, public sector debt etc, and we all know that the only way to fix our situation is to create more high value jobs.  To do that, the Government must create a climate in which it’s easy for businesses to launch and grow, but we do need a greater supply of skilled people.

“I’m really concerned at how difficult some young people find it to stay in training or education.  … we need to get a real grip, motivate and enable our young people to invest in themselves ,   and create the skilled workforce we need. Our government needs to do a lot more to make finance available to SMEs.  … The creation of a small business bank along the lines of the German Sparkassen banks would make a massive difference as would the creation of a Small Business Agency as seen in the SBA in the US.  There is so much bureaucracy that stands in front of people who would like to   start a business.  … There’s too little understanding of the absolute criticality of the start-up small businesses; 80 per cent of our new jobs will come from them,”

Asked about the future of IT, Bill says: “Well I think we will soon see an end to anonymity on the internet – many of the current challenges would be readily addressed by making sure that individuals are personally associated with their cyber activities. And regarding AI, I really don’t see it as a threat, it is just like any capability, it can be used to do good or bad. It’s all about what the governance is deployed around the people who are using it.  In terms of its ability to destroy jobs and take livelihoods away, I think that the jobs our grandchildren will do haven’t even been thought of yet”

Bill was knighted in 2020, he says of the honour: “It was a lovely surprise, great for the family; and for once my kids were impressed.  My mum and dad would have been very pleased, there aren’t a lot of knights from River Street.”

“An interesting question is are you good at something because you love it or do you love it because you’re good at it?

The most important thing is to find something you’re good at. People are rewarded, happy, and get recognised, if they focus on things they’re good at. There’s a rule of thumb that it takes ten years to be good at something, so find something you’re good at, and stick at it for ten years. That takes resilience. So my advice to young people is do things that will help you build resilience, be open-minded about finding something you’re good at and after ten years, you’ll find that you do love it, because you’re good at it, and you’ll probably get well rewarded and be happy. It’s a theory!”

Interviewed by Tom Abram

Transcribed by Susan Hutton

Abstracted by Lynda Feeley